Arte De Gotch/El Hijo Del Diablo

One of my eventual projects is to go through all the Arte de Gotch interviews & pull the interesting info out so it doesn't end up lost forever. Or so when my mind starts to fail me, I know which interviews I've already watched at some point. So for now as a placeholder I'm gonna c&p a bunch of stuff from interviews I've taken notes on & put on twitter which means they exist in the abyss where nobody can find them. Also I'm pretty sure one day that site is just gonna shut down & everything will be lost forever.

I'll also include a couple of the El Hijo Del Diablo interviews that I happened to check out because sometimes he's focused & gets the guys to actually talk seriously. Plus he has access to some people who have never/may never do the Arte De Gotch podcast.



Pantera II

Arte de Gotch put up Part 2 of an interview with Pantera II (current CMLL one, worked ~Dean 3! last night). This part focuses on his international career, all his Japan trips & such. He had an interesting story that really encapsulates the arms race for luchadors in 1997.

He noted Victor Quinones had shown interest in him (shut up @ghostofquinones) back in '94 when he had seen his work while CMLL/W*ING were working together. Victor offered him a 6 month stay in Japan where he would teach classes + wrestle but Pantera didn't wanna leave his family.

Victor kept his contact info & in Aug '97 got in touch w/ him. He said WWF saw what WCW was doing with the Mexican wrestlers & wanted to have their own crew. But they just broke off their relationship w/ AAA so they came to Victor looking for talent. He needed 2 guys immediately.

He said he wasn't sure if the Pantera gimmick would be OK so bring other gear. Pantera long ago was offered the role of Blackman II in El Toreo so he brought his Blackman gear. The other guy chosen was Super Crazy (who IIRC also had his alternate gear - Mosco De La Merced's).

They were booked to work RAW in Cincinnati on Sept 8. Super Crazy (as Super Loco) fought Brian Christopher. Pantera was supposed to wrestle Taka Michinoku but as they were both in gorilla, Victor came over waving his arms saying their match was canceled due to time issues.

At next day's tapings he worked Super Crazy for Shotgun. They were told they did well but that was the end of it.

Pantera returns to Mexico & has an IWRG show. A friend lets him know his wife is trying to reach him urgently. He gets in touch & she says Damian is looking for you.

When he speaks to Damian he's informed WCW is doing a tryout for even more luchadors in Salt Lake City & they want him to come. He says sure - it's just another booking in his mind.

So 2 weeks after his WWF tapings, he's at Nitro doing a dark match on September 22.

It was Pantera/Oro Jr (Mike Segura)/Super Astro vs Black Warrior/El Texano/El Dandy.

Later that night all the Mexicans were hanging out & Konnan was giving them feedback on their work. He told Super Astro he had to completely change his style, it would never work in America.

He then turned to Pantera & said out of everyone here you are the one least likely to succeed. Pantera says he bit his tongue b/c he knew the power Konnan had. Texano spoke up for him pointing out Pantera's daredevil style is actually the most likely to get over in America.

For many years after that any time Super Astro would run into Pantera he'd greet him with a sarcastic "Hey! There's the guy who will never succeed!" 😅

The only guy to get hired from that match was Dandy.

When he returned back to Mexico he got a call from Victor...

Victor said what the hell were you doing working that show? You're a WWF wrestler, I signed your contract last week. Pantera said he didn't know it would be an issue, it was just another booking to him. He said don't worry, I didn't sign anything & don't want to return (to WCW).

He brings up a previous "casting" for WCW which very much confused me b/c he said it was him, Octagon & Emilio Charles Jr. along with the Brazos/Infernales. A show in Los Angeles. Then it clicked when he mentioned Eddy Guerrero... this was the Ron Skoler IWC show in Nov '95. He just mixed up IWC/WCW (& Octagon w/ Atlantis).

There's brief talk about Super Astros but nothing too in-depth. He casually says WWF had a new name for him in mind just like they did with Tarzan Boy, Scorpio Jr. & Mr. Aguila but it never came to pass. He worked there 3 years.

Also a mention of working shows in Singapore & other exotic places on an Ultimate Warrior (not Ultimo Guerrero) tour in 1994. Mentioned Tiger Jeet Singh was there & loved Pantera/Arkangel's work. Talked to them about coming to do his own shows in India (?).

There's a quick bit about his departure from CMLL to jump to AAA in '96. Calls it biggest mistake of his career. Ties it in w/ today's scene & gives a quick lecture to young wrestlers about believing in false promises from Konnan.

(Aramis/Arez could have used this talk in 2021)

He said the day he decided to quit AAA was after a show in Nuevo Laredo. The crew was getting back on the bus to Mexico City & when he got on no seats were available. They were taken up by the many staff working in production or there selling gimmicks for the office.

He had been unhappy but this was the tipping point. Found it very disrespectful how the company treated the wrestlers.

He returned to work in IWRG before ending up in Promo Azteca & eventually returned to CMLL in '98 thanks to Paco Alonso saying this will always be your home.

He noted how he always had respect for Paco Alonso. In early '92 when he won the CMLL Welterweight Title from Fuerza Guerrera, he was called ot a meeting at the VIPS near Arena Mexico (IYKYK). He thought it was gonna be about his new responsibilities as champion...

Instead he showed up to find a bunch of Arena Mexico wrestlers sitting there being spoken to by Antonio Pena, Konnan & Octagon about starting a new promotion. Pena told him he recently created the 'America' gimmick for him specifically to take it to the new company.

When he was called into the office to speak to Paco Alonso, he was flat out asked are you leaving too? He said no. But he noted what Pena said about the America gimmick & how the Morenos (Naucalpan) own the Pantera name. Paco said don't worry, we'll handle any legal issues.

That's when he was switched into Triton. A gimmick he kept for a year or so before the Morenos said they had no issue with him taking on the Pantera name again. He dropped the "II" from it b/c Marco Moreno told him the original had quit wrestling & relinquished the name. Oops.

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Artico

His most recent interview was with someone named Artico. Not a name many would know. In fact, he has no LuchaWiki bio. At first I was skeptical of even listening. He just seemed like a guy who worked the small wrestler circuit (Raul Reyes) so I expected the usual stories.

The first part uploaded is just that. His tales of coming up as a luchador, working the smaller arenas & never quite making it big. However it takes a turn when he starts to talk about his time working in the Arena Mexico office alongside 'Tono' (Antonio Pena).

Both were ex-luchadors who never really made it big but understood how the business worked. Artico talks about how he was the coordinator of the Tuesday Arena Coliseo shows & shared an office with Pena. Some good stories about how they put lineups together & improved quality.

He talks about Pena wanting to come up with all these new charachters & how his (Artico) job was to figure out who should play the charachters. So he would go to the smaller buildings to scout talent or suggest guys he used to work with (aka Amenaza Elegante as Octagon).

He tells the tale of Pena coming up with the La Parka gimmick/outfit (while still working @ Arena Mexico). Noted there was some guy in Guadalajara who was up for the spot as well as the guys playing Los Romanos at the time. But Volador kept pushing for his uncle to get the gig.

He said they have good chemistry & had feuded forever. Artico knew him from the Pavillon Azteca days so he invited him into the office & told the story of Pena eyeing him up & down before deciding to give him the gimmick. Even told the story of how Pena specifically instructed Parka to strut because "some wrestler in the US" (Flair) did a strut but Pena wanted this one to be different. Fascinating peak behind the scenes of what a visionary Pena was. He talks about some of the other gimmicks too. He went with Pena when AAA was formed.

There's also the story of the day Vampiro first showed up asking for work. They were just sitting in the office working & were told some big foreign guy is here asking for a job. Adolfo Bonales happened to be at the building so he spoke to Vamp in English.

Vamp's only question was "how much can I make here?" They laughed & asked him if he had any training or experience & he said no. So they told him to piss off. Soon after they tracked him down & told him to come back b/c they realized with his look if they actually taught him how to wrestle he might be valuable. Sure enough Artico notes they were right. He was valuable... he just never learned how to wrestle. LOL But they made sure to always have someone good working with him to hide that. He actually had a nice little digression discussing how wrestling is unfair b/c it's supposed to be 50/50 in the ring. There is no Vamp w/o his opponents but yet Vamp was the star making the big money & the guys doing all the work for him like Masakre/MS-1/Pirata Morgan never really got compensated as well by the office or a thanks from Vamp.

A long interview but a fascinating listen since all his stories seem to pass the smell test. This isn't just someone making up stories to seem more important. He seems level headed & didn't even come off bitter when talking about his falling out w/ Pena.

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Bucanero Jr.

Arte De Gotch interviewed Bucanero Jr - Zandokan Jr's father. It's pretty good as usual with Oswaldo's interviews. I wasn't taking notes or anything but enjoyed his story of getting work in Arena Mexico. Basically the boss (not said who but I presume Sr Lutteroth at the time?) came to scout talent in Guadalajara. He was not chosen. But he was young & carefree so he just decided to go to Mexico City on his own & showed up at the office asking for work. He got it. LOL That's what they call jumping the line! (I know a current GDL guy who did this! 🤫)

Says he enjoyed time in EMLL but was always told he was too small to move up on the cards. Didn't have the physique the promotion encouraged people to have. Tells a funny story about going to the office to get paid, getting booked by Pepe Casas as a sub for a show in Leon...

where he got to work the main event w/ Santo/Atlantis. Then when he went to get paid the following week they gave him a $0 payoff b/c he wasn't the official emergency sub so there was no record of him actually working the show. He laughs it off as a lesson learned.

He also has his own Steve Austin/Jerry Jarrett story about working for what was left of the UWA in it's dying days. Manny Guzman was running shows in the old smaller arenas (Pachuca/Queretaro/Neza) using all the famous Toreo names & after a Pachuca show Bucanero Jr went to get paid & was given 10 pesos. 10 PESOS! Don't look up how much that was in 1994. He questioned if guys like Canek & Dos Caras were also working for 10 pesos. He said the taxi home was gonna cost 15 pesos. That was his final day working there. He went back to Guadalajara.

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Josue

Enjoyed the Arte de Gotch interview with Josue. After listening for an hour I still can't pronounce his name correctly on first try since I default to "Jose". His name comes from someone in the bible. I am unfamiliar with that book.

Not a name many would recognize. I know it from popping up on all these EMLL shows in the late 70s/early 80s but the name doesn't even have a LuchaWiki bio. His later gimmick Super Bolido does. This interview doesn't go into his time as Super Bolido, that's next.

No real revelations if you're looking for dirt or anything. Closest you'd get is him basically shitting on Juan Herrera for favortism. Herrera was booking at the time & only pushed people who gave him bribes is Josue's claim. It certainly lines up with what we know re Herrera.

Said his career went much better when Javier Llanes took over as head of programacion b/c he knew who the good & bad wrestlers were. Josue started out working many of the smaller arenas in existence at the times & he describes them in-depth. Really paints a picture w/ his words.

It's fascinating stuff like him explaining how big Arena Raff was (~800 people comfortably) & how getting there was very easy. Explains which metro station to go to, how many blocks you had to walk, etc. The problem was always getting back late at night...

The metro didn't run at night & there were no buses. So all the opening match guys would have to wait until the show ended & ask the top guys for rides since the top guys all had their own cars. He said there was more "camaraderie" back in those days so it always worked out.

He was also one of those guys who got to work some of the EMLL "super lucha estrellas". If you don't know what that is, don't worry. I didn't know for 25+ years of my fandom until @luchablog did some wonderful historical research & figured out how EMLL patterned their shows.

What they'd do often is have the opening match take place after the main event ended. This would be the "super lucha estrella". The idea being many fans just came to see the stars so in order to make it safer for everyone to exit (many buildings only had 1 or 2 entrances)...

They would put on a bonus match. Many of the hardcore fans would stick around to watch. Josue explains how you could get instant feedback in that spot. You knew your match wasn't going well if the building began to empty out. On the flip side you knew you were doing a good job if fans who had been lining up to leave returned to their seats b/c they heard the crowd reacting to what was going on in the ring. He also makes it quite clear that even though they'd be headlining the show - they still got their opening match pay. 😆 I could have guessed that!

The one Super Bolido story he tells is actually pretty funny. On the day he debuted under that name the Arena Coliseo ring announcer screwed up his introduction. Both trios teams came out for their match & he was doing the intros reading off the lineup sheet handed out to fans. He didn't recognize & couldn't make out the name of the new guy so he said "Super...." then walked over to Babe Richard & said "who the hell is this?" Babe Richard said "it's Josue" So the ring announcer continued "Super....... Josue!" Thus exposing his identity immediately.

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El Falcon

Arte de Gotch has a short interview w/ El Falcon. Doesn't go in depth due to limited time. Mentions late in his career Antonio Pena offered him the Mariachi gimmick which ended up going to Solar b/c Falcon suffered a bad injury in Merida weeks earlier.

He says he made the El Patriota gimmick famous & played it most of the time but his brother Indio Vitela actually did the gimmick at first. Unless you know your lucha history, that gimmick likely means nothing to you but having just gone through 70s/80s results I was surprised.

He was victim to the same thing many older luchadors have mentioned over the years - he was a local wrestler when EMLL sent word they wanted new bodies. 2 tecnicos, 2 rudos. So Diablo Velasco picked 6 of his best trainees & they were told to show up for a tryout.

Ray Plata was the guy in charge of choosing talent (noted as one of the Arena Mexico bookers at this time in the mid 70s; we have records of him being the Guadalajara booker at some points during the 60s-80s). He immediately dismissed Falcon due to his smaller size.

To very casual lucha fans it sounds absurd but 🇲🇽 was largely just as big man centric as the US was around that time. Obviously smaller big man but physique & height were very important. Smaller guys weren't given chances or relegated to underneath spots. Even Blue Panther types.

After Falcon was passed on he came upon Antonio Cruz was Velasco's 2nd in command. He said he's not going to Mexico City bc he's too small. So Cruz ended up helping him out get some local work including a match with El Solitario which was a really big deal at the time.

Fast forward when he chose to move to Mexico City to be with his brother, it was El Solitario who found out he was living there & remembered him from their GDL match. He went to Francisco Flores (UWA) & told him to give the kid some work. That's how his career really began.

Notes it was himself & El Halcon who were chosen as the first two UWA wrestlers to get basically traded to Arena Mexico as part of a talent sharing deal that started up in the mid-80s. He never really recovered from his injury in the mid-90s & spent his time just training kids.

In the interview he also mentions there was an Indio Vitela Jr at one point but he died at a young age from "poor decisions".

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Torbellino

Speaking of podcasts... Arte De Gotch, as usual, somehow found a blast from the past - Torbellino! Arkangel De La Muerte's brother who spent time in CMLL & did some Arena Naucalpan gimmicks. Was even a part of CMLL's 2nd Japan tour w/ Cacao in 1997. Couple interesting notes...

- Him & his brother used to sell food/drinks outside some of the smaller arenas as they grew up, that's how they started idolizing the wrestlers. They'd get access to the show they couldn't afford by walking the wrestlers' bags into the building. Arkangel did this at El Toreo.

- He got into wrestling after his brother. His first show in a CMLL ring came when someone no-showed so he was summoned to step-in. He didn't have a name or anything so when they asked he said 'Tony'. Ring announcer Mucha Crema improvised & announced him as 'Tony Tijuana' based on a popular TV show at the time. So he went with it. He says he worked matches teaming with Tor-Ver (son of Gran Davis) although we have no records of that (yet). (My note: A Tony Tijuana pops up in 2002 @ Arena Neza to lose his hair to Ricky Marvin - this is who it was)

- his next break came when Blackman II/Impala no-showed an Arena Naucalpan show. He was outside selling things & got called inside saying they needed someone to wrestle under the name "Cerebro". He had no gear so a bunch of wrestlers pooled together to give him a makeshift outfit

- the next week he got his official Cerebro gimmick which he kept for 3 years before losing his mask to Dr. Cerebro (version: Joe Mercado/Pentagon Black) (Note: The first version of Cerebro working in Naucalpan was Rafaga Moreno, he didn't last long doing it)

- his next gimmick was El Revolucionario which was like a Triple A/El Consejo gimmick (IWRG = Grupo Revolucion) - in late 1996 Babe Richard told him I have good news/great news... good: I got you a job in CMLL, great: Paco Alonso wants to give you a gimmick that company owns

- When he went in for the meeting he was presented 3 options of gimmicks Paco said Blue Demon Jr (?!?!) created & sold to CMLL:

Jaguar
Violencia
Torbellino

He chose the latter, of course. He was a midcard to lower card tecnico for a few months before being invited to Japan.

- It's on that Aug 1997 tour with CMLL where he suffers a serious arm injury (wrestling against his brother). At the time I remember it being reported he got paralyzed on the tour (it was in the WON) but then he showed up wrestling in 2003 which debunked that.

- The injury was serious enough where he needed surgery & couldn't wrestle for a long time. CMLL paid for it. Paco told him we will find work for you in the office. He said I don't even know how to use a computer so no thank you. Claims CMLL paid him $4000 per week while out.

- He's very complimentary of Paco Alonso. Tells the story of Paco walking in on a training session & seeing the brothers together for the first time. They looked like twins. He immediately said you guys are going to be my new Gemelos Diablos. Arkangel hated the idea...

Paco insisted, Arkangel was going to lose his mask & they'd start the new gimmick. He mentions Los Gemelos Korak (?) was pitched too. Doesn't say why it never happened. - Drops a hidden gem story about how Arkangel was supposed to leave for AAA w/ everyone else in 1992...

Pena created the Arkangel De La Muerte gimmick & everyone who got Pena gimmicks went with him. Arkangel got cold feet at the last second & decided not to show up so they gave his gimmick to someone else that night. That gimmick? Colorado of Giro & Colorado fame. The chickens.

- Talks at length about the end of his brother's life & how he was going through a very serious depression due to personal problems (w/ his then wife). He spent the day with him before he was found dead. He claims the cause was a heart attack caused by stress.

- One last anecdote he tosses in is how he wrestled as Arkangel one time. In the early 2000's Arkangel got booked in Japan but forgot he had a show back in Naucalpan. Instead of canceling, he sent a message to his brother telling him to pick up his spare outfit...

He said go to the show but make sure you keep your mask on at all time & don't speak to anyone as to not cause suspicion. So when Negro Navarro came up to him to say hi, "Arkangel" gave him the cold shoulder. The match was w/ Navarro/Super Mega vs Panterita/Suicida/someone.

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Rocco Valente

Arte de Gotch interviewed Rocco Valente recently & it went up yesterday. Oswaldo had actually interviewed him way back when so this was mostly just a follow-up going over some of the more interesting topics & leftover questions some viewers had.

I was very much amused when somehow the topic of AAA being sold to WWE came up & he was asked his opinion on it. If there's one person who you go to for an expert opinion on this situation it's Rocco Valente who hasn't worked for AAA since 1996 & hasn't watched WWE since... ever?

My favorite part of the interview aside from the repeated stories about certain AAA wrestlers hating to have to sell for Rey Misterio Jr. was him putting over Hechicero. It's not often you find an old-timer who will go to bat for a new era guy the way Valente did here.

Said he would love to have wrestled Hechicero back in his day & how he's amazed at some of the holds he comes up with. "I used to copy holds I would see from (X) or (Y). This guy comes up with his own holds, I don't know where he gets these ideas. He's one of the best."

Also a funny bit where without saying Jose Manuel Guillen's name, he buries JMG. 😅 It's the usual old-timer stuff about how lucha is all about flips & acrobatics these days but he notes you also have this announcer screaming "if you want lucha libre, THIS is lucha libre!"

I mean, he's not wrong. Jose Manuel has done irreparable damage to the lucha libre style & we see it daily. But I feel bad for JMG too b/c it's not like this was his intent. He was just an announcer trying to get over a catch phrase. There was no intent in his words.

But with less lucha on TV than ever before & younger fans digesting lucha through social media where Mas Lucha had a monopoly so all you heard was Jose Manuel... of course they would learn to chant "esto es lucha" after balcony dives & sit on their hands for an Avisman match.

In passing Valente also mentioned something I don't think I ever heard discussed publicly as a fact before - when Pena started AAA he promised the wrestlers any trip over 5 hours would be a flight, not a bus. Also, (good) hotels were mandatory for local promoters using AAA guys.

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Villano IV

Arte De Gotch put up an interview with Villano IV. They've already done the long sit-down with him so this wasn't the usual career retrospective - it was touching on things they didn't cover before or things he didn't want to talk about including a couple interesting WCW topics.

When discussing how he got into WCW, he credits Eddy Guerrero & Dean Malenko. He says he was doing the NJPW BOSJ in '96 & Eddy asked if he'd like to work in the United States. V-IV said sure but how would that be possible? Eddy told him Dean Malenko can make it happen.

V-IV spoke to Dean who said he liked his style & send over some video after he gets home from the tour. V-IV did that via Eddy. He didn't hear anything for a couple months so he dismissed the idea as ever happening. Except one day he got a call from Eddy saying you're in. BUT...

Due to "politics" he needs to wait for a call from Konnan who controls the Mexican talent coming into WCW. Eddy assured him the deal is already done b/c Dean vouched for him. So V-IV kinda laughs as he tells the story about getting a call from Konnan who said I can't promise you anything but I can probably get you a tryout match & we'll see where it goes from there. V-IV says he just thanked Konnan but it was all a formality as Eddy had already told him the deal was waiting & what the pay would be. (My note: This has been going on for ~30 yrs!)

He discusses working without a mask in WCW. His timeline is a bit off & he leaves out the part about how he was called Tony Pena but as he recounts it... Eddy called him up & said get to the building early for a meeting. V-IV found that strange. When he showed up Eddy told him he was asked which of the Mexicans would be able to handle themselves vs Steve Regal in a TV match b/c he works a rough & stiff style. Eddy suggested Villano IV. Only issue is WCW wanted it to be someone unmasked so Regal could beat someone "with a Hispanic face".

V-IV told Eddy he can't disrespect the family legacy by doing that. Eddy said he understood but a bit later he was called into an office with Eddy, Konnan, Terry Taylor & someone he can't remember (not Bischoff). They (minus Eddy) pressured him into re-thinking his decision.

He asked if he could call his dad (Ray Mendoza). He explained the situation to him. His dad said the decision is up to you. You know the economic situation in Mexico & how much they are paying you there. I support whatever you do & make the best decision for your family.

So Villano IV did the match & was thanked afterwards by "WCW officials". They requested he keep working unmasked but he claims he eventually asked them if he could go back to being Villano IV & was told OK. This was right before he was informed they wanted to bring in Villano V.

He also discusses the infamous injury he suffered vs Raven & Kanyon. He said WCW treated him great. They not only paid for all his medical bills but immediately flew his dad in so he'd have someone to take care of him & put them both up in a hotel for as long as they needed.

He even mentions his contract had a clause where if he got hurt on the job the company would only have to pay 50% of his guarantee while he was out but a "WCW official" spoke with him & said he would be paid the full amount. He mentions he thinks that only happened because they didn't want him to go after them for racism in the future. Nevertheless he was happy to hear that & credits his quicker than expected recovery to the great treatment he received & having his dad around for support. (+ dios... always dios!) He touches on the racism...

Basically he says racism definitely existed backstage & all the Mexicans would be aware of others who were unhappy not only that they were being used but how many of them were being used. "Any time someone new showed up you could see the unhappiness from the usual people."

He said he didn't understand it because nobody was losing a job just b/c a Mexican wrestler was now getting work to. He equated it the UWA bringing in many foreigners who brought variety to the shows & how the top Mexican guys didn't resent them or accuse them of taking jobs.

They were happy to work different styles & they knew if a foreign attraction came in it would help make more money for everyone else. He also notes most of the Mexicans were booked so low (in WCW) that he's not sure why certain wrestlers were so bothered by their presence.

That's it for the WCW stuff so you may now tune out of the tweet thread if that was your only reason for reading. He is asked if he was ever a full-time member of EMLL/CMLL. He laughs & says no. He says my brother (Villano III) was but we (Villanos IV & V) never wanted to be.

He notes they worked Arena Mexico many times but it was always as independents. Which means they got to charge their guarantee while their brother would be working like everyone else on the roster - on a %. So for every 5 pesos they earned, their brother would make 3.5/4.

He said the opportunity was always there for them to join full-time but then they wouldn't be able to work as independents. It was always something that the brothers disagreed on as Villano III enjoyed the safety & stability of being employed by CMLL. He recounts his favorite Arena Mexico match - a trios w/ the Villanos (I/IV/V) vs Atlantis, Ringo Mendoza & Cachorro Mendoza. He says it was amusing for the real Mendozas to be in the ring with the other Mendozas & how the match got very stiff at certain points. Speaks very highly of Atlantis.

Near the end of the interview he gives some interesting thoughts on current lucha libre. It's about what you'd expect. He says his son enjoys the sport but don't expect to see Villano IV Jr. He thinks that wrestling is slowly dying & will soon "just be a parody of lucha libre".

He says if you ask the current luchadors "is the buisness doing well?" they all say yes. But he then rattles off a long list of all these former arenas that used to exist & hold lucha libre events that aren't around any longer. Pointing out lucha libre used to be a full-time job for so many people & now "a good week of work is getting booked on shows Saturday/Sunday". He does note that the pay is better these days just b/c of the difference in the economy but there are far fewer people making a living as a pro wrestler in Mexico. It's more a hobby.

That's the gist of what I thought was noteworthy. But I do wanna add I love Villano IV's smile. 😄 He looks just like his dad & Villano III (duh) who always had the biggest smiles in old photos.

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Franco Colombo

Arte De Gotch dropped a near 2 hour interview with Franco Colombo. For a really long period & up until not too long ago (2021 or 2022) he was one of the most powerful men in Arena Mexico. In fact, the tagline for the video is "I had all the power in CMLL".

Not often you get to hear from people who legit were that high up in CMLL - especially w/ an outlet where CMLL isn't controlling what they say. So I'm excited to dig in & see what subjects he touches on. Oswaldo always asks great questions but Colombo does have a vendetta now.

If you were looking for dirt (hi!) this interview didn't give it to you. It's basically around 100 minutes of an old man who doesn't give a fuck any longer. Which is just as good. 😅 Colombo swears a lot & raises his voice many times for no reason.

Some interesting notes below:

He does usual deal going through career accomplishments including discussing the infamous double apuesta match w/ himself & Faisan v Panico & Manuel Robles @ Arena Coliseo on 8/17/82. It's infamous b/c what actually occurred has always been in doubt. Obviously there's no video...

So we have to rely on magazines which always kept kayfabe. They explain it as issues with the referees. Colombo tells the story kind of the same way although if you read between the lines it sounds like Eddie Palau (who was getting very old) fucked the finish up...

So the match goes on & Roberto Rangel counts the pinfall for the correct winning team. Fans are obviously furious. Commision doesn't know what to do. Fans won't let the tecnicos lose their mask/get head shaved. So everyone agrees to reassess the situation days later...

The commision rules Panico/Robles as the losers so they unmask/get shaved. They also suspend Roberto Rangel for counting an illegal pinfall after the match should have been over. This is all to cover for Palau fucking up. Colombo kinda jokes about the entire situation.

He also mentions winning the National Welterweight Title from La Fiera. He says Kung Fu was originally booked in the match but had a falling out with Paco Alonso & no-showed. So Colombo got the call & they did a title switch. He drops the belt 3 months later.

He stopped wrestling by the end of the 80's & moved back to GDL. That's when Americo Rocca paid him a visit saying Paco Alonso wanted him to come back as part of the office. He was offering a role in programacion (booking) but mostly wanted him to assemble a training system.

The idea was Alonso would give Colombo total authority over who makes it onto the roster. Colombo was trained by Diablo Velasco so Alonso wanted him to impart that training on others & put his own people in place who would continue to do the same for years to come.

Colombo notes he is the one who gave Berestein (Gladiador), Tony Salazar, Virus, Ultimo Dragoncito - all current CMLL trainers - their spots. Nobody made it onto the CMLL roster w/o his approval. Only exceptions were guys like Atlantis/Negro Casas/Felino types who pre-dated him.

He said Alonso helped him set up a place to train kids & remembers working with Atlantis Jr./Villanitos/other current days notables when they were children. Even brings up the Munoz brothers. Puts them over big. (Suspiciously no mention of any familiar connection)

His time in CMLL came to an end during the pandemic. He calls Salvador Lutteroth a very mean name & then proceeds to bury him. Says one day he got called into the office & Lutteroth said he respects all the work he does but with the shutdown he can't afford to pay his salary.

He is offered to stay on w/ reduced pay but Colombo instead decides to quit. (My note: This goes against a previous interview Colombo did about a year or two ago where he claimed he was forced out of programacion & his timeline for this was after the pandemic. JCR took his spot.)

Speaking of JCR - at one point Colombo goes over other people in programacion & mentions there was one guy who was a son of a bitch. He didn't like him at all. He can't remember the guy's name but they go through the list (including Edgar) & the only name missed is JCR so...

He says being in programacion is a hard job b/c everyone always has a problem with you. From opening match guys who want to move up quickly to top guys who don't get enough feuds & think you are blocking their success. "You can never win." Says being a wrestler is also tough b/c it's not just about talent. You need to have a connection w/ the fans. Points out Vampiro was a shit wrestler, one of the worst he's ever seen. But fans loved him. Especially a section of fans CMLL wasn't usually drawing. So what can you do? You have to book him as a star.

Segways from that into Rush so make of that what you will (notes Rush "was a tough kid"). Also drops Pierroth Jr's name as someone who wasn't a good wrestler but had an angel on his shoulder as a superstar rudo who could talk. Which explains how he was used under Colmbo's book.

He has the usual spiel about how wrestlers today can't actually wrestle & just want to do acrobatics. He doesn't seem to care to watch lucha libre any longer. He even jokes about throwing away most of his memorabilia collected throughout his career.

Some other random bits...

Buries La Fiera as a human being. He wasn't anyone's friend. He never wanted to talk wrestling. He just wanted to drink & get into fights. Even his so-called good friends couldn't stand him. (My note: Jerry Estrada has confirmed all this & told stories about fights they had)

Brings up the death of Sangre India. Says the story about him dying after a dive gone wrong was a cover. The truth is India went out partying the night before Christmas. He drank way too much & showed up in no condition to wrestle. He stuffed himself with barbacoa to sober up.

During the match he was still falling all over himself & his insides exploded causing him to fall out of the ring where he died. (My note: I have to believe this story as the magazines have always covered up things like this & Colombo has no reason to outright lie.)

Tells another story about Rush/Diamante Azul/Vangelis getting into an altercation with a customer at the famous La Polar restaurant. Makes it seem like they were shitfaced (either beer or drugs or both) & their babysitter (Edgar Noriega) called Colombo saying there was trouble. He told Edgar to bring them to him immediately. But the cops showed up first & the wrestlers got into it with them. Eventually the cops backed down due to the size of the wrestlers & let them leave but it was a very bad situation. Colombo finds the entire story humorous.

At the end of there's a tease of doing another part but I think everything was basically covered here. Colombo seems more interested in discussing the 70's & 80's than anything afterwards. And yes - he confirms he got his name due to his resemblance to THE Franco Columbu.

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Violencia

Do you remember Violencia from CMLL? Lost his mask to Pierroth Jr. at the '03 Anniversary Show. El Hijo Del Diablo tracked him down for an interview on his weekly YouTube series. It's not as in-depth as Oswaldo does over at Arte De Gotch but Diablo has his own fun style.

Discussed starting out in lucha libre in Matamoros & moving to Mexico City where he trained under Blue Demon (the original). Talked about joining the CMLL school system & doing what he could just to get by. Sleeping in parks or bus terminals since he couldn't afford rent.

Got his chance to start working CMLL shows in 1990 as a tecnico under the name Aguila Real. It wasn't long into his rookie year (10/20/91) when he fractured his ankle during an opener. Sidelined him almost 10 months. He says CMLL paid everything including private hospital room.

When he was ready to return things had changed (AAA formed). The bookers at the time were Javier Llanes/Peonono/Roberto Rangel. They wanted to give him the Lynx gimmick. A gimmick that was previously played by Guerrero Negro & Comando Ruso. He accepted it & became a rudo.

Stayed as Lynx for a couple years before switching to Violencia. When he dropped the gimmick, CMLL quietly put the former El Supremo II under the mask but that didn't last long. The story of him becoming Violencia confused me a bit so I may be wrong but as I understood it...

Pirata Morgan had been using the gimmick for a short time but didn't want it any longer. He offered it to Lynx & said with this outfit/mask you'll immediately move up the card since it's an established act. So Lynx accepted it & agreed to pay (X) for the entire deal.

When he went to the office to inform the bosses (+ presumably get the $ to buy gimmick), they approved it but Paco Alonso told him don't pay Pirata for it. Pirata owes the office money so we'll just take this out of his debt. (this is where Pirata sues CMLL & gets blacklisted)

Either way he becomes the new Violencia & as Pirata stated he is immediately moved up on the cards since that was an established semi-main event level act. That's when his career took off & he got picked to go to Japan + other countries as a CMLL representative.

Pierroth took notice of his work & offered him a spot in the Boricuas, told him to get some Puerto Rican colored gear. Around the same time he also accepted an offer from mini El Fierito to take on the Pequeno Violencia name. So things were going well for him.

This is where he talks about his personal issues... he was a very heavy drinker along with other vices (drugs + women). But drinking was his #1 issue. He says Pierroth was always watching over him & trying to get him to clean up his act before it effected his career + life.

Brings up a fight he had with Zumbido at a hotel in Monterrey (this appears to be a clapback at some story Zumbido told on a podcast). Sounds like they were both fucked up & just went at it. Also recounts a bus ride back from Guadalajara where himself, Olimpico & Zumbido were so fucked up on booze they made the bus driver pull over so they could fight on the side of the highway. Claims Zumbido couldn't even beat him up then either when it was basically 2-on-1. Legit heat! Mentions Mr. Niebla as one of his regular drinking partners.

He gets emotional at the mention of Niebla & says he doesn't understand why god took him early but left him (Violencia) on this earth. He lost his career (fired by CMLL for showing up in no condition to work too many times) & family (two sons) due to his drinking problems.

He acknowledges his complete disappearence from lucha libre around 2006/2007 saying he was locked up in jail in Ecuador although he doesn't specify for what. He just says his problems finally caught up with him. He spent 5 1/2 years in prison for whatever the crime was.

Diablo asks if he was born again would he choose to be a luchador? He says yes, it's in his blood. But also he'd have to think about it b/c he says the lifestyle of a luchador led him down a bad path & took away many things from him. Warns the younger generation about excess.

Claims he's now been clean for 3 years, has done AA/12 steps/etc. Says the person wrestling as Violencia Jr. is authorized to use the name but isn't one of his sons. Doesn't sound like he has any interest in wrestling again.

Near the end mentions losing his hair to Shocker on a TV show called 'No Manches'. I remember that being a big thing at the time since it was viewed as embarassing for lucha libre. He said his original opponent was Satanico but for some reason he backed out at the last moment.

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Oscar Sevilla

La Arte del Gotch did a long sit down interview with Oscar Sevilla. The first part came out the other day. It's great as usual. Osvaldo is the perfect host for these. Currently Sevilla is a mask maker & has a shop where he sells his work. Some highlights from the interview...

Got into lucha libre as a kid watching on TV of course. Big Arena Mexico fan. Las Saetas del Ring & Metalicos inspired him. His older brother was a bigger fan than him & got into the business first. They would go to school dressed as luchadors. He studied amateur wrestling.

The first revelation is his brother played multiple AAA roles we had assigned to other people.

Magnum/M-357 of Las Armas Mortales (not Chessman)
Mascara Sagrada III (post-Kraneo becoming Alebrije)
El Cementario (!!!)
Mungo of Los Alienigenas (not MS-1)

His first real match was on Valentine's Day 1994. His brother was part of a show where someone didn't show up & he called Oscar to come wrestle. He had no gear so he just borrowed from others. They worked many small shows after that & trained at Gimnasio Ham Lee.

One time they worked a small show where May Flowers was headlining. He liked their work & said he would talk to Antonio Pena about coming to scout them at the gym one day. They waited and waited but he never came. Then one day late at night his brother got a called from May Flowers saying I'm here with the boss. So they rushed over to the gym to do an informal tryout. Pena liked his work but moreso liked the resemblance he had to a famous young bullfighter which is how the Oscar Sevilla gimmick was born. (He had been working as Espiritu Maya)

He debuted on TV in Puebla & earned 150 pesos for the match. Claims it was his first payoff to wrestle. All his small indy shows were just for food and drinks. He soon started making 250 pesos per match & considered himself rich. Goes onto discusss lots of his feuds/apuestas.

He clarifies even though he worked with Gran Apache a lot, he doesn't consider him his trainer. He said he learned things from him in the ring. Puts over Babe Face, the exoticos & Villano IV as people who really gave him tough love but helped him learn the business.

Tells a fantastic Mil Mascaras story (with voice!). He was booked for a trios with Mil & Dos Caras in Arena San Juan Pantitlan vs Canek, Mr Jack & Mohicano. Mil Mascaras showed up & asked who is this kid in my match. The promoter pointed at Sevilla. Mil immediately said no. He had Sevilla removed from the match claiming he was too skinny & how bad it would look for an international superstar to be sharing a ring with someone who looks like that. Sevilla ended up in the semi main event where Mil lectured him on not doing any "circus show". After his match, where the only flying he did was a plancha, Mil pulled him aside & asked him who his trainers were. He dropped the names of Villano & Fantasma which is when Mil softened. He said you just need to improve your physique & be more serious inside the ring.

He talks a bit about traveling the road with guys like Octagon, Parka, Abismo, Tirantes & the shit they would get up to. Then the interview gets sidetracked as he says "I don't want to speak ill of the current generation..." & proceeds to spend 20+ minutes doing just that.

Part 1 ends w/ him saying the Angel gimmick wasn't a copy of Mistico. He always wanted to do a masked gimmick but Pena always said no. One day he (Sevilla) saw a movie called Angel del Silencio & pitched the idea to Pena who approved it. Good stuff.

Part 2 of the interview discusses his time as El Angel. He debuted under the gimmick the same place (Puebla) he debuted as Oscar Sevilla which is a funny coincidence. He notes how at one point previously he had asked Antonio Pena if he could be the new Venum but was turned down.

He talks about doing a commercial with CMLL wrestlers where he was sent to participate by the AAA office itself. But when they found out CMLL wrestlers were in the same commercial, they got mad/punished him. He didn't understand that since he was just following orders.

Either way this leads into the weird part of the interview everyone is discussing in the comments. He says it was at that commercial where he met Tony Salazar who requested he come to the CMLL offices for a meeting. The following is Oscar's version of how things went...

Tony Salazar told him Mistico is currently out with a collarbone injury & they need someone to fill in for him. He also noted Mistico hasn't been meeting CMLL's expectations. So they are looking for a substitute & Oscar would be perfect. Oscar said he would think about it.

Oscar said he went straight from the CMLL offices to the AAA office where he met with Antonio Pena (who greeted him by saying "hi Mistico' as a joke since everyone said El Angel was a clone of Mistico). He told Pena about the offer. Pena said the decision is yours but we would love for you to stay & as a reward we will send you to Japan for NOAH along with 5 other wrestlers. Oscar said he made the decision with his heart instead of his brain & turned down the CMLL offer. He adds Tony Salazar even pleaded with him to change his mind.

Now I have to interject with how this story makes no sense. The first reason is obvious - Mistico was the most popular & highest paid luchador of his time. You'd have to be out of your mind to turn down that opportunity. Saying you did only makes you look stupid.

The second is just pure facts. The injury described is the famous Mistico injury during the summer of 2007. Kept him out till September. El Angel's tour of NOAH took place in June 2006. The timeline doesn't add up at all. I was watching this with second hand embarassment.

He discusses the NOAH tour, calls in an immense success. In reality I remember that tour was actually famous for how awful Angel looked early on. So bad that he actually became a loveable figure as it progressed & the crowd would applaud when he actually hit his spots correctly.

Needless to say he never returned to NOAH. Then he goes into how it started to go downhill in AAA with Antonio Pena gone & new management (Joaquin/Dorian/Konnan) taking over. They had their own crew & no respect for those who stuck with AAA even during the down periods.

He says he was getting more work from Comex (sponsor) than AAA & complained he was a wrestler - not a walking advertisement. He also alludes to some issue in the ring with someone (I think Teddy Hart but could have been Jack Evans) who was a favorite of the new management.

He complained to Joaquin who offered him a team w/ Argenis (green rookie at the time) & basically called him obsolete. Oscar decided his time was done with AAA at this point & left. He said he picked up many bookings immediately but the pandemic (H1N1) hit causing cancellations.

(Oh yeah - he also goes into some story about a series of tag matches he did with Oriental against Cassandro & Pimpinela Escarlata in Mazatlan & Juarez which apparently got tons of praise to the point Marisela Pena herself had something put up in the office to honor them. Odd.)

Afterwards he attempted to get in with CMLL & showed up at their gym but was sent to train with the new kids which he felt was an insult considering his longevity. He still stuck with it but was pretty down on lucha libre in general at that point & stepped away.

Escorpion Dorado Jr. convinced him to attend a convention which is where he had the fortune of being seen by Perro Aguayo Jr. The two caught up & when Perro found out he had left AAA, he offered him a role with the Perros del Mal. Oscar accepted & Damian welcomed him in.

He worked with the Perros del Mal for 2 years. Speaks highly of Damian. Says he was treated well. The promotion ended up falling apart (he doesn't mention Perro went back to AAA) & he was once again without much work until Pirata Morgan invited him to Arena Naucalpan.

He notes Pirata didn't get him a job w/ IWRG, he just invited him in to watch a show & introduced him to Marco Moreno. He says he earned the job after being a last minute sub one week against the Traumas. Moreno liked his work & offered him a regular role leading to a mask loss.

Final part of the Oscar Sevilla interview mostly focuses on his mask making business. He said he started doing it in early life with his brother & they would occasionally help Antonio Pena out with certain ideas/designs. He notes the Fuerza Aerea in particular was his work.

He also takes credit for the Psycho Circus. Mentions the failed clowns gimmick of 2007 (Miedo/Terror/Carrona) & how he told Dorian Roldan the concept could still work but with the right look. Dorian said make a design & if I like I'll buy it. So the brothers got to work.

He goes into great detail about creation of the masks based on the names at the time (Psycho/Killer/Zombie). He says he wanted Psycho's mask to have long flowing hair (like Panic Clown now) but his brother insisted the mohawk look was the way to go. Dorian liked the designs.

This spirals into a tangent where he buries Aero Star for being unappreciative. His story is Aero Star was on the outs with Pena for saying some bad things so he wasn't getting any work (as a Chiva Rayada). One day Aero Star begged Sevilla to help him out & put in a good word.

Sevilla says he went to talk to Pena about helping out since Aero Star has a kid coming & Pena joked here you are again helping someone else who is going to screw you over first chance they get. But he told Sevilla to come up with a gimmick & he'll see what he can do.

So Sevilla takes credit for creating the entire Aero Star look from mask right down to the name as he said they were gonna debut him as Aero Kid but he suggested to star to go with the mask motiff. Since then Aero Star has claimed his dad & Antonio Pena created it all.

I don't know how much of this is actually true. The entire Aero Star gimmick story is that it was Pena's last created gimmick before passing. But the story also leaves out him being Chamagol & all that. So who knows. @OscarShockDG might but he also may want to not be involved.

The rest of the interview is basically him running down various masks he created, showing off his shop & dropping random stories like making a mask for Fuerza Guerrera & how Samurai del Sol asked him once for this very intricate Spiderman mask design that was a pain in the ass.

He says he isn't retired. He always thinks about officially retiring but then someone will call him & he doesn't want to be one of "those" wrestlers who are forever on a retirement tour. He mentions Robles in particular asked him to do some shows. His son is now Angel Jr.

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Winners II/Abismo Negro Stand-In/Ultimo Vampiro

Interesting interview w/ Winners II aka the "stand-in" Abismo Negro for a time period & future final version of Ultimo Vampiro. He tells the long rumored story that isn't really discussed much in lucha circles but is 100% true. Some still won't accept it.

First discusses his history working as Diamante Azul as a rookie, as Neblina in Arena Naucalpan (before the future Star Boy made the gimmick more famous), then as Caballero del Ring which was the name he entered AAA with on recommendations from Rambo & May Flowers.

Antonio Pena liked his look & gave him the Winners II gimmick. The "II" was dropped soon after. At Rey de Reyes 98, with the famous Gemelos Brennan match, there was a pre-match moment where the Brennans were distracted by a fake Abismo & Pentagon. He was the fake Abismo.

This must have stuck with Antonio Pena because in early '99 he had a problem. Abismo Negro got "sick". Nobody has ever revealed the exact issue but rumors at the time were his drug addiction was out of control & he had to get serious help so Pena sent him away to get clean.

Instead of shelving the gimmick Pena invited some kid from Monterrey to tryout for the role along with Winners II (ironically Abismo played the original Winners). This guy got the role b/c his physique matched the original Abismo more than the Monterrey guy (who is never named).

He says Pena made it clear he was just a stand-in & to never ever lose his mask or have it ripped so nobody would catch on. He says some fans in arenas would be suspicious but nobody ever really made a big deal in the magazines. He played the gimmick for under a year before the original Abismo returned. Said he worked Triplemania & Verano de Escandalo that year. Gave the gimmick back, no hard feelings. Said he never really discussed it publicly later in his career b/c if nobody believed it when it was going on - who'd believe it 10+ years later?

When his time in AAA finished up he ended up in Arena Naucalpan again & Marco Moreno said he was having problems with the current (2nd version) Ultimo Vampiro. (That unmentioned problem was Ultimo Vampiro took the gimmick to CMLL & wasn't planning on returning) So Moreno gave him the Ultimo Vampiro gimmick & had him work main events while the CMLL one was invisible on undercards. Eventually he lost his mask to Hijo del Anibal in '03 & IWRG never revived the gimmick.

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Salsero re: Danger Unmasking Mistico Story

Speaking of being excommunicated... who remembers the infamous Mistico/Danger story from 2007-ish? El Hijo Del Diablo has a YouTube channel where he does interviews. Usually the sound sucks so it's a hard listen but I fought through to hear SALSERO addressing the topic.

His version is his son was part of a CMLL crew in Cuernavaca for the weekly Thursday show which existed at that time. He had just gotten the new iPhone & was playing around with it backstage showing it off to his friends. Alfonso Morales was visiting backstage so Danger took the opportunity to shoot a quick video which caught Mistico & Volador Jr. sitting around unmasked. The next day - you wouldn't believe it - his other son (Demony, who I forgot even existed) took the phone from Danger & went to OF ALL FUCKIN PLACES Tepito to shop for some stuff.

Salsero says phone was stolen in Tepito (!!!) & the thieves must have come across the video which they then shared online. CMLL traced the video back to his son, they were both immediately fired & blackballed. He notes how mean everyone was to them (Damian/Halloween namedropped).

During this fantastic story he also makes sure to mention everyone in CMLL loved Danger, especially Mistico. They were best friends. CMLL had big plans for Danger - specifically the La Sombra gimmick that Brillante Jr/Andrade got was actually supposed to be Danger!

Far be it for lowly old me to discredit noted trustworthy honest humble saint of a human Salsero but... a quick check of Google shows the initial iPhone being released *after* this incident happened. Also, nobody has ever hinted the Sombra gimmick was ever meant for anyone else.

If you don't remember the story - this was during the height of Mistico-Mania. A short video surfaced online of what is described above. I forget the website but it was one of those tabloid ones. It quickly spread exposing the idendity of Mistico. I remember it was poor quality.

The story making the rounds at the time was the tabloid offered big $ for someone to do the dirty work & Danger obliged, then tried to pin it on someone else who worked the show. He was quickly found out & disappeared for a year before popping up for a one & done AAA TV gig. Salsero was a notorious scumbag throughout his wrestling career - everyone has a story. It's basically why he has spent the last 15 years or so hiding in border drug cities. So it's not a stretch to imagine his children took after him & nobody has ever hinted otherwise.

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